some feature suggestions

[ivosight]

Here are yet again further suggestions, after taking a look at the features of some alternative audio editors and DAWs:

1. M/S waveform view option: Soudop has the integrated mid / side splitter plugin, which is very useful. What I would consider a great addition to this, would be the ability to view your waveform and spectral information of stereo audio file in mid / side mode too, in addition to L / R. Perhaps this could have a toggle button in View Toolbar and the "L / R channel enabled" buttons in Editor panel would convert to M / S buttons? If this could be replicated to Mixspace too, perhaps with a spectogram toggle button/options, It would be even more useful? For Mixspace, a track or clip based override/setting for general view options of spectogram / waveform and stereo / ms information might be useful though? Bacause you might want to see the m/s or spectral information for one track or file, while seeing the rest of the files/tracks in waveform mode.

2. A separate monitoring FX chain / panel would be helpful. As using software based headphones and room correction is quite common these days, a separate monitoring FX chain that retains it's settings independently from the current selected Audio file or Mixspace would help alot. So this would be a global setting for the Soundop. In signal chain this would be positioned after the rendering point, so none of the monitoring FX would ever be rendered in files by accident. A single on/off toggle button for monitoring FX for Toolbar menu would be great. Of course saving your chains as presets for different headphones or monitoring environments would be great too. In windows (and Mac based systems too I guess) you can use systemwide correction using several software, but these don't cover using the ASIO drivers in Windows at least, as the DAW software connects then directly to audio hardware. So a separate monitoring fx chain is needed for the editor/DAW software for using ASIO. It would also create more flexibility for those of us who don't want to use systemwide correction, and rely on other drivers than ASIO. I haven't looked at the channel routing options in Soundop now as iIm currently working with stereo files only, but perhaps it would be wise to think a bit about monitoring chain and output options in general together, if you want to implement this. I mean you can setup your studio so that your routing for headphones and main monitors is separate, which would suggest implementing separate corrections for separate hardware outputs, or specifying the outs which the correction is applied to. But perhaps this is already a bit detailed, a simple option to enable / disable a preset based correction for your main L/R bus would be already very helpful.

3. Delta solo button and mix knob for all plugins: If it's reasonably easy to realize, adding a delta solo button and mix knob for all individual effects (VST etc.) would be useful. You can surely find a better description, but as I understand it, the delta solo (perhaps?) uses a phase cancellation of the original signal to subtract the original from the passed signal. So with the button pressed, if your FX is doing nothing, it nulls perfectly and you don't hear anything. But any modifications to the signal are passed through and you will be able to hear them. This combined with the frequency analysis panel would be a great and immediate way to hear and see what a plugin does to your signal. In addition a separate mix pot for all individual effects, integrated as well to the existing "wrapper" window for VST's etc, would be handy. So you could use all effects in parallel mode (with the original signal), if you wanted. This of course needs sample accurate latency compensation.

There you have it, have a good sunday

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestions. We will consider adding them in future versions.

For the M/S view option, we are unsure about the editing operations in M/S view mode when the Mid or Side channel is disabled. Do you know of any software that supports this view option?  Additionally, you can use the Channel Mixer to convert a file to Mid/Side.

   

Soundop allows you to route tracks to different device channels when using ASIO devices. You can send audio from the master track for monitoring. If we add the monitoring FX panel, the monitoring effects will only apply to the master track output. This could pose a problem if you are monitoring on multiple devices. If you know of other software with similar features, please give us some references.

We are not aware of any VST plugin hosts that support solo and mix functions. Implementing these features would require additional buffering and processing for each effect, and also complicate the user interface for all users. These are the issues we intend to avoid. You may use Parallel FX Groups to create a delta solo or mixed version of a specific effect.

Welcome your further suggestions.

Best regards.

[balanced]

Thank you for educating me on the options already included in the software! I actually did not even think about using Channel mixer for separating m/s, but of course.. Regarding the plugin delta and mix knob complications, I fully get that you want the interface to be as uncomplicated as possible. A minimalistic example of this is the way it's realized in Reaper:

   

There's a fairly descreet mix knob on top right corner of every plugin wrapper window, which enables user to mix between 0-100% dry and wet signal, for every plugin. In addition, if you left click the knob with a keyboard modifier key pushed, it engages the delta solo mode. Reaper is not known for hiding options, but perhaps they have "hidden" this delta button because of the screen estate. I guess it also prevents people from accidentally messing with it. I just became aware of it some time ago because of this, I would have happily been using it instead of some manual work, if I only knew it before.. I guess the advantage for having the button is that because it's easy, you end up using it more in order to understand what a specific plugin does to you signal. But I get it might not be a priority for many users.

Concerning the m/s waveform and editing, I believe Wavelab has had this option for a while, from 10.x version at least:

https://www.steinberg.help/r/wavelab-pro...ide_c.html

iZotope RX has this option as well in later versions, but as I haven't upgraded my version from 8 I have been unable to try it. I believe they first encode the track to m/s in order to show the waveform and spectogram, and for playback (real time) and rendering (offline) they decode it back to stereo? Anyway it seems like it's possible to edit mid and side information separately in both of these editors. I guess you should be able to first convert a LR file offline to mid/side in Audio File editor with Soundop, then add some parallel and channel mixer effects to FX Rack in order to decode the track to LR in realtime in order to enable mid / side editing while still listening it as LR? Using just one button to enable M/S editing would be quicker/simpler though.

I believe using m/s editing (in waveform and spectral view) can be especially useful if you work with post production and dialogue, as you could easily repair and edit stuff for the mid channel only, without affecting too much the ambient sound for example. Or to edit unwanted ambient sounds out in order to create more room and less distraction for your mid signal (dialogue, probably). But for music production and mastering work as well, especially for repairing unwanted artefacts.

Cheers!

[balanced]

Soundop allows you to route tracks to different device channels when using ASIO devices. You can send audio from the master track for monitoring. If we add the monitoring FX panel, the monitoring effects will only apply to the master track output. This could pose a problem if you are monitoring on multiple devices. If you know of other software with similar features, please give us some references.

I guess there are many terms and realizations for monitoring FX. In most of the cases I suppose they work for the main buss (LR) channels. Perhaps some of these can be set up for doing multichannel (surround) room correction or multiple different monitoring chains, but I'm not too familiar with it. I have corrected my surround setup with a separate hardware DSP. But just enabling a single stereo monitoring FX chain after the main LR bus in Soundop would be a big improvement in my opinion. No need perhaps to dig any deeper. You could always swith the monitoring FX preset for different situation like monitor speaker listening or different headphones.

Here are some examples of different realizations, there might be more though:

Presonus Studio One has "Listen Bus", which in addition to solo listening, enables one to use headphones / room correction plugins separate from actual master channel:

https://s1manual.presonus.com/en/StudioO...sten%20bus

Wavelab has Playback Processing, for setting up your room or headphones correction:

https://www.steinberg.help/r/wavelab-pro...est_c.html

Cubase (and possibly Nuendo?) have Control Room section, which can be used for room and headphones correction, separate from main bus:

https://archive.steinberg.help/cubase_pr...oom_c.html

Reaper has Monitoring FX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk8qN-69tNE

I'm not sure if Adobe Audition has this feature, perhaps not. So it might be an advantage to have it, if compared to Audition.

[balanced]

Hi,

Thanks for the bug report.

The stop fade setting is intentionally disabled when the play effect tail option is enabled. This is because the fade is applied after the effects due to effect latency, and enabling stop fade can lead to audible artifacts if the effect tail naturally continues from the original audio.

Best regards.

Ok, perhaps I don't get all of it, but at least some of it.. The thing is that the popping artefacts I hear are probably caused by playback that is stopped (or started?) to a non-zero crossing, thus feeding for example a real time reverb plugin and exiting the sound of it? So in order to suppress these artefacts you would need to fade the end of the original dry signal before it goes to the real time plugin, and then let the effect tail to play still?

[ivosight]

Hi,

Thanks for the bug report.

The stop fade setting is intentionally disabled when the play effect tail option is enabled. This is because the fade is applied after the effects due to effect latency, and enabling stop fade can lead to audible artifacts if the effect tail naturally continues from the original audio.

Best regards.

Ok, perhaps I don't get all of it, but at least some of it.. The thing is that the popping artefacts I hear are probably caused by playback that is stopped (or started?) to a non-zero crossing, thus feeding for example a real time reverb plugin and exiting the sound of it? So in order to suppress these artefacts you would need to fade the end of the original dry signal before it goes to the real time plugin, and then let the effect tail to play still?

Hi,

Thanks for your suggestion.

We have released a new version that improved fade-out processing when stopping playback with playing effect tail enabled. Please check it out.

Best regards.

[balanced]

Hi,

Thanks for your suggestion.

We have released a new version that improved fade-out processing when stopping playback with playing effect tail enabled. Please check it out.

Best regards.

Fade out for stopping playback seems to work fine now, thank you. However fade in for playback start does not work in similar manner, it seems to trigger snapping sounds still.

Cheers!

[ivosight]

Here are yet again further suggestions, after taking a look at the features of some alternative audio editors and DAWs:

1. M/S waveform view option: Soudop has the integrated mid / side splitter plugin, which is very useful. What I would consider a great addition to this, would be the ability to view your waveform and spectral information of stereo audio file in mid / side mode too, in addition to L / R. Perhaps this could have a toggle button in View Toolbar and the "L / R channel enabled" buttons in Editor panel would convert to M / S buttons? If this could be replicated to Mixspace too, perhaps with a spectogram toggle button/options, It would be even more useful? For Mixspace, a track or clip based override/setting for general view options of spectogram / waveform and stereo / ms information might be useful though? Bacause you might want to see the m/s or spectral information for one track or file, while seeing the rest of the files/tracks in waveform mode.

2. A separate monitoring FX chain / panel would be helpful. As using software based headphones and room correction is quite common these days, a separate monitoring FX chain that retains it's settings independently from the current selected Audio file or Mixspace would help alot. So this would be a global setting for the Soundop. In signal chain this would be positioned after the rendering point, so none of the monitoring FX would ever be rendered in files by accident. A single on/off toggle button for monitoring FX for Toolbar menu would be great. Of course saving your chains as presets for different headphones or monitoring environments would be great too. In windows (and Mac based systems too I guess) you can use systemwide correction using several software, but these don't cover using the ASIO drivers in Windows at least, as the DAW software connects then directly to audio hardware. So a separate monitoring fx chain is needed for the editor/DAW software for using ASIO. It would also create more flexibility for those of us who don't want to use systemwide correction, and rely on other drivers than ASIO. I haven't looked at the channel routing options in Soundop now as iIm currently working with stereo files only, but perhaps it would be wise to think a bit about monitoring chain and output options in general together, if you want to implement this. I mean you can setup your studio so that your routing for headphones and main monitors is separate, which would suggest implementing separate corrections for separate hardware outputs, or specifying the outs which the correction is applied to. But perhaps this is already a bit detailed, a simple option to enable / disable a preset based correction for your main L/R bus would be already very helpful.

3. Delta solo button and mix knob for all plugins: If it's reasonably easy to realize, adding a delta solo button and mix knob for all individual effects (VST etc.) would be useful. You can surely find a better description, but as I understand it, the delta solo (perhaps?) uses a phase cancellation of the original signal to subtract the original from the passed signal. So with the button pressed, if your FX is doing nothing, it nulls perfectly and you don't hear anything. But any modifications to the signal are passed through and you will be able to hear them. This combined with the frequency analysis panel would be a great and immediate way to hear and see what a plugin does to your signal. In addition a separate mix pot for all individual effects, integrated as well to the existing "wrapper" window for VST's etc, would be handy. So you could use all effects in parallel mode (with the original signal), if you wanted. This of course needs sample accurate latency compensation.

There you have it, have a good sunday

Hi,

We have added the Monitor FX panel and supported delta solo and mixing for effects in the latest version. Please check it out.

   

   

Best regards.

[ivosight]

Hi,

Thanks for your suggestion.

We have released a new version that improved fade-out processing when stopping playback with playing effect tail enabled. Please check it out.

Best regards.

Fade out for stopping playback seems to work fine now, thank you. However fade in for playback start does not work in similar manner, it seems to trigger snapping sounds still.

Cheers!

Hi,

Thanks for the report. The fade-in length may be too short. We have increased the fade-in length in the latest version. Please check it out.

Best regards.

[balanced]

Thank you for the awesome updates again! Here are some findings:

For some reason, I seem to still get that snapping sound when starting playback in Audio File editor.

For using monitoring FX, it would be convenient if that specific effect chain would not be reset every time Soundop is restarted, but would rather retain it's state as a global setting. This is the default behaviour for Reaper for example. The logic for this is that monitoring FX are not used based on file or "session", but as a more permanent setting for all your editing and listening. It compensates for your listening environment, which usually does not change based on the material you are working on. So monitoring FX chain should need modification only when you actually change your monitoring devices (headphones, speaker setting etc.). If you have to load this chain every time you start using the software, it perhaps beats the purpose.

One thing I started to wonder is if it's possible that Soundop resets panel and/or toolbar button settings when installing new versions of software? I remember going through all the toolbar buttons at some point and hiding everything I don't want to see, as well as organizing panels to my liking. For some reason my toolbar has now included all the buttons again and many panels are not shown. I believe I saved a workspace for Audio File editing after these changes, but loading it does not bring the panels back.

What I also find confusing is that if I make changes to panel settings or toolbar buttons and click "update workspace", at first it seems that I can then switch between saved workspaces normally. However if I modify the buttons and visibility of panels, while a certain worspace is selected, I can no longer recall that workspace to the state it was saved earlier. It seems like once a worspace is selected, all the edits you do to your buttons and panels, are saved in it already, without the "update workspace" command. And when you try to recall the previously saved state, it does nothing (as perhaps the modified state is already saved to this workspace?). I wonder if this behavior is connected to how I think I have lost my workspace settings: If software is upgraded while a certain workspace is selected, and some default panel and button settings are then forced on first startup of new software version, the previously selected worspace might get modified and lost therefore?

Sorry for the vague explanation, this is something I remember I have been wondering before as well. It's hard to exactly pinpoint what happens, when you just realize some day that for some reason you can't recall your edited workspace anymore the way you remember using it.

EDIT: I tested this workspace problem by first installing an older version of Soundop, saving some worspace settings and then upgrading the software version. And yes settings for that selected worspace are deleted when you upgrade software. So you lose your workspace when upgrading.

[ivosight]

Thank you for the awesome updates again! Here are some findings:

For some reason, I seem to still get that snapping sound when starting playback in Audio File editor.

For using monitoring FX, it would be convenient if that specific effect chain would not be reset every time Soundop is restarted, but would rather retain it's state as a global setting. This is the default behaviour for Reaper for example. The logic for this is that monitoring FX are not used based on file or "session", but as a more permanent setting for all your editing and listening. It compensates for your listening environment, which usually does not change based on the material you are working on. So monitoring FX chain should need modification only when you actually change your monitoring devices (headphones, speaker setting etc.). If you have to load this chain every time you start using the software, it perhaps beats the purpose.

One thing I started to wonder is if it's possible that Soundop resets panel and/or toolbar button settings when installing new versions of software? I remember going through all the toolbar buttons at some point and hiding everything I don't want to see, as well as organizing panels to my liking. For some reason my toolbar has now included all the buttons again and many panels are not shown. I believe I saved a workspace for Audio File editing after these changes, but loading it does not bring the panels back.

What I also find confusing is that if I make changes to panel settings or toolbar buttons and click "update workspace", at first it seems that I can then switch between saved workspaces normally. However if I modify the buttons and visibility of panels, while a certain worspace is selected, I can no longer recall that workspace to the state it was saved earlier. It seems like once a worspace is selected, all the edits you do to your buttons and panels, are saved in it already, without the "update workspace" command. And when you try to recall the previously saved state, it does nothing (as perhaps the modified state is already saved to this workspace?). I wonder if this behavior is connected to how I think I have lost my workspace settings: If software is upgraded while a certain workspace is selected, and some default panel and button settings are then forced on first startup of new software version, the previously selected worspace might get modified and lost therefore?

Sorry for the vague explanation, this is something I remember I have been wondering before as well. It's hard to exactly pinpoint what happens, when you just realize some day that for some reason you can't recall your edited workspace anymore the way you remember using it.

EDIT: I tested this workspace problem by first installing an older version of Soundop, saving some worspace settings and then upgrading the software version. And yes settings for that selected worspace are deleted when you upgrade software. So you lose your workspace when upgrading.

Hi,

We can hear the difference when the fade-in option is changed. Could you verify if this option works on your system?

You can update a workspace to update the default layout of the workspace. After you change the layout of current workspace, you can use "Reset Workspace" to restore the default layout.

Soundop upgrades will not overwrite existing settings. We installed 2.1.3.1 and made some changes to the workspace. After upgrading to 2.1.4.1, the changes to the workspace still exist. Could you provide more details on how to reproduce the problem?

Thank you.
Best regards.